A quick blog post before the President’s day weekend.
As we approach studying opera in the Classical Era, I came across a recent blog by NPR’s Tom Huizinga where he compares and contrasts how listeners equally “hate” opera and rap. The article is compelling. Both genres requires effort to appreciate and have a polarizing effect upon listeners.
Huizinga wrote, “In an age when more and more music is available to anyone’s ears, are we turning into lazy listeners? Is it too easy to download too much, to acquire everything but actually hear nothing?” I was reminded about the comment in class about melody versus rhythm? Does it belong with this discussion? It certainly applies in that opera is about melody and rap adheres to the rhythm. But, perhaps I’m just struck with the idea that it’s easy to access music, but difficult to “actually hear” and comprehend the music.
I also wonder if it is fair to compare these two genres. Will this comparison make opera-lovers want to know more about rap? Or vice versa? And to go a bit further with this comparison, is it fair to compare at all? Like the “top ten” list by Tommasini, what is the purpose of this comparison? Is it to unite audiences? Did it succeed?
Take an informal poll of the comments. Are they different on the actual blog versus the comments on the FB status post? What type of affect did this article have on the readers? Are you surprised?
Here are two songs from my iPod. What similarities do they hold? (musically and thematically)
I have to say that I was surprised when I read Tom Huizenga’s blog post about people “hating” opera and rap. While I can imagine that opera might not be for everyone’s enjoyment, I did not expect rap to be unpopular as well. I know little about rap; therefore, I found it interesting to read about similarities between rap and opera that make them less likable. I think that this kind of comparison has an educational purpose for the people who did not know much about either rap or opera. It is certainly an interesting idea that makes people think about the two genres on a deeper level.
What I also find amazing is that people have indeed become lazy, and it seems to be a plausible argument why they dislike rap and opera. I can imagine that a lot of people prefer to listen to dozens of songs daily without truly listening to the lyrics or the melody (if one can find something meaningful in either of them in contemporary mainstream music). It is the same as favoring TV shows or movies over a novel or short stories. Why bother your imagination when someone else already provided nice pictures for mass consumption.
Being a fan of Hip-Hop, it disappoints me to hear that many people “hate” rap music, but it doesn’t surprise me. Rap music was created by and for a people that were in the low ranks of society economically, politically and geographically. Though many people today from all walks of life love Hip-Hop culture and rap music, in my mind most of the people that tune into NPR can’t relate, for obvious reasons.
I can’t say that I am not a culprit in casting judgment on music. I am not a fan of opera myself. In the past I have stereotyped opera many times in the same way Tom Huizenga suggest as being “for rich, white, elderly snobs”, but through reading this blog post I can see the similarities in both rap and opera. I believe since in both genres of music the emphases are on the lyrics and not as much on the instrumentation (which some would disagree) many classical music fans wouldn’t prefer it to other types of music.
I believe through the rapid availability of music not only has the listener become lazy, but the artist has as well. It seems that more often then not artist have been sounding very generic, jumping on what ever then new musical trend is and using it until the profit from it is all gone. In a day where a one hit wonder can become just as famous as a person who has been working for 10 years its not easy to see why an artist might take the easy way out. The listener is also very lazy, because we allow it to happen.
This conversation provides great insight for me into the world of opera. When opera is compared to rap music, which I am more familiar with, it allows me to understand more about this genre that I never truly took the time out to listen to. The blog post has great points about how both rap and opera have a “cast lists”, in which listeners have to stay in tune with to really appreciate the music.
I know a little bit about opera but I know a lot more about rap so I’ll mostly be addressing the issue about rap.
People may hate opera because it is not the typical genre of music that people grow up listening to nowadays. They tend to favor the kind of music that the people close to them prefer. Before attending college, I was someone who strictly listened to rap. But after entering college, my interest in K-pop grew so much because the people I hung out with mainly listened to it.
As for rap, it seems like Tom Huizenga never really analyzed rap before. To use the word poetry to classify some rap lyrics is taking the easy way out as any type of writing can be deemed poetry as long as one person says it is.
Rapping is so dependent on the words used to fit the rhythm. To make the flow work, rappers have to decide whether to make a syllable longer or shorter in duration and know where the accents are in a word so that the flow stays clean.
It is also surprising that Huizenga did not even mention the most basic element of rapping: the rhyme. The amount of different rhyme schemes that are available is tremendous. There could be rhymes at the end of the lines, there could be some in the middle of the lines, and there are times when a line would have no rhyme. There is also the multi-syllable rhyme that is a much more complex form of rhyming.
But at the end of the day, it is not about hating something but actually about liking something more. Besides, most of the reasons why people hate opera or rap are due to ignorance.
Disclaimer: This is just an observation of mine, not meant to offend or to make massive generalizations.
I find it ironic that there are similarities between the reasons why people hate opera & rap because think about the people who alternatively love opera & rap. Are people who enjoy opera likely to be in the same age range, financial state, or ethnicity as people who enjoy rap? And then you take into account the people who enjoy listening to NPR…which genre would you pick for them?
So for two genres that appeal to (for the MOST part) completely different audiences, to even assume they have anything in common would be pretty out there, so I think that Huizenga’s article is pretty eye-opening and also has the potential to make genres that are at completely different ends of the musical spectrum a bit more approachable for more mainstream listeners.
As far as laziness in current day artists & laziness in current day listeners….don’t even get me started. Then again, if the general public is made up of lazy listeners can they really be so mad at artists for taking advantage? Nobody’s going to put the time and effort into a 3 minute guitar solo if they know it’ll just be skipped over.
I hate rap more than opera. Although I don’t understand both equally, opera at least have some beautiful music accompaniment. So, with text painting in Opera, I can still feel the mood without understanding the plot. For rap, I don’t even consider it music. (Don’t get offended if you are a rap fan. It’s my personal taste and I just want to be honest…) When I judge these two genres, I don’t think social status matters at all. However, although people may equally hate opera and rap, opera is more likely to get people’s respect, and it’ll look weird if you go to an opera dressed like a rapper.
The reason for the unpopularity of both genres, I feel, is it’s failure to grab people’s attention while people have very fast pace life style in modern society. With the easily access to tons of music, if people can get what caters to their musical taste easily, why brother to spend time and effort to appreciate opera and rap. Since they can hardly get people to listen to them, of course people don’t like them.
I remember listening to WNYC on a debate about lyric vs melody. One of the guests mentioned: “music is what sucks you in, while lyric is what keeps you there.” And I totally agree. No matter what genre, it needs something to hook people’s attention; to have people listen to you first. Otherwise, it’s hard to get appreciated, unless people are initially interested in this genre.
Opera and rap sound totally different but I do agree with Huizenga that they have a lot in common. They both tell a story and have the same type of format. I agree with the stereotypical baggage that Huizenga includes in the article. People do compare opera with rich elders and rap with poor blacks. Times have changed and diverse people listen to rap and rap is also included in many pop songs now. Opera is more ignored then rap nowadays. I personally do not really listen to either genre but rap is a very popular genre. I would say that rap has a larger fan base then opera. “Frannie Kelley, who swims in the world of rap like I do in opera, agrees that at first glance the two genres would appear to have little in common. Digging deeper, one can argue that there are many connections, not least of which is the obsessiveness of each genre’s most dedicated aficionados.” I agree with Kelley and that opera and rap have many connections.
This article is very subjective and many people that listen to opera and rap would be offended. Lyrics in both genres can be meaningful . I wrote a review for his other article “Where Are Your Musical Blind Spots” and it connects with this article because a lot of genres are ignored and people really don’t bother listening to any of them.
Interesting article. As a lyricist myself, I can point out that comparing Classical era Opera and Modern Hip-hop can be difficult. Without thinking critically, one can see that social change can cause this dilemma.
I looked into the NPR blog and saw the examples. Its missing a few details and anyone that reads the article in only looking into one point of view. “People” are thrown around like they know every angle of the question. There’s no way to find out what genre they actually like unless they do a full-blown survey. There are social reasons for why people actually like hip-hop. However, most of it is temporary and “people” who are into the genre will move on to the hip and happening. One would need to ask a psychologist to answer why humans enjoy music in the first place because everyone develops in a different way and it depends upon exposure.
My question is, do people listen to classical music because they think that more work is put into it? I ask this because they argue that hip-hop is very elemental and 5 minute “baby” writing.
Just as Tommasini’s article, I don’t get the reason to write something like this resulting in people writing opinion and nothing else. My main question when Huizinga says “people hate rap and opera,” was who are “people”…what “people” did you ask? Did he ask his friends/coworkers/acquaintances or did he ask everyone as a “people?”
What I think he should’ve said is most music outside of the “pop” world isn’t liked as much as pop. But that creates a DUH moment because it’s called pop (popular) for a reason. He mentioned Jay Z and Kanye West in a different article as rap music he hates or “is in his blinders.” Is Jay Z rap or hip hop? Is Common rap or hip hop? What about Eminem? Whatever your answer is, why is it that vs. the other? There are too many matters of opinion here to get a definitive answer, just like Tommasini’s article.
I strongly agree with what Min had to say ( I didn’t want to copy and paste the whole post for reference so you should read it.)
At the end of this article, Huizinga says rap has “Violence and intense vocals…” If that is what’s in your and everyone else’s “blinders”, what about death metal? I would say that majority of people hate death metal. Why? because they’re singing at you and not to you, violent, intense vocals…. all these are some points against rap and opera.
My point is you can take any music and compare and contrast them to what “people” have to say or think. There is no point to this article to me. Of course you can say rap and opera are the same when he’s speaking general about them both.
Indeed, interesting article and comments, and there certainly doesn’t seem to be compelling answer to “why?.” One thing is evident though, lyrics and social class are in the center of this debate. With opera and rap, in particular, it’s hard to argue against that both genres are difficult to comprehend when it comes to the “meaning.” It is also true that majority of people use music for their pastime, as an “innocent luxury,” so to say. This being said, ignorance comes into play. Both, opera and rap, in a way “demand” the extra attention and effort from a listener. If you ask rap lovers, I’m pretty sure they can rap along with their favorite artist and most of their songs. Same with opera lovers, they would know many details about any given play, which “others” would need to take this class to learn about.
As far as social class goes, it’s pretty self explanatory. We have two extremes, in a way, each with its cultural traits and “pride,” as well as with some who strive to switch sides, while doing so, again, requires significant effort and education of the opposite. And yet, at the end of the day, I can only speak for myself. I thought about all rap/hip-hop music that I was exposed to, as well as opera, and considered these without lyrics and stage (something I usually do while listening to any type of music). What I’m left with is instrumental music, obviously, without context. Apparently I like some opera for I cannot ignore many beautiful harmonies and compositions out there. I also like a lot of beats and loops from rap/hip-hop genre, especially when it comes to 2pac and Biggie, to name a couple. However, I still think comparing these two is rather difficult considering that opera incorporates more in it that rap does. It can’t be analyzed the same way as we would analyze the comparison between rap and country music, for example.
I think the article brings up a good question and really makes good comparisons to what listeners may find difficult in appreciating. I think with any genre of music there are always certain artists or styles that appeal to the ear and both opera and rap have many different levels of creativity.
I believe the talent a good opera has is with vocal superiority and instrumental as well. You have some of the best vocalists and instrumentalists in the world telling that particular story. In rap music, the same thing can be true, and talent is needed to tell some of the stories in these songs. I don’t like every rap song, I believe there are artists that have come up such as Common and Mos Def who have given the genre a good name. These guys are not just rappers, but they are poets who are capable of coming up with phrases about a particular sentiment off the top of their head. That is talent to me. Now to say guys like 50 Cent, or other main stream rappers just talking about drugs, girls, and sex, thats when the talent comes into question and the ideas in the Blog of “thug” music can be understood. There are many rappers that have been around since the 80′s who frown upon much of the music thats on the radio. I have a few articles, the first one is the NYTimes from 2007 and talkes about profanity in hip-hop which is interesting:
This is from USA today with hip hop fans discussing their dislike of the new stuff:
Michael Eric Dyson from NPR writes how Rap is an authentic African American art form:
Opera in its beginnings was frowned upon and thought to be a dramatic fantasy that took away from what was considered great composed music of the time. But people still have their favorite composers and artists in an Opera because of what they conveyed through the music. Same thing with rap.
The links didn’t show! Here they are:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11829316
http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/2007-02-28-47380438_x.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/25/arts/music/25hiph.html
I think one component that can, sort of, unite these genres is jargon. With Opera you need to know, at least, the main theme of the plot, otherwise it is very difficult to follow. With rap you have to know the meaning of certain words (and the meaning of abbreviations) to fully understand the lyrics. I guess that “melody versus rhythm” does belong with this discussion. You go to Opera, mainly, to hear beautiful melodies and virtuosic singing (and of course to watch the performance.) But with rap music the main component is rhythm. The theme about “not getting the genre” was raised in the professor Tomasello’s class. He pointed out that one of the problems can be that we pay attention to something that has no value in a particular style. I never thought about it before but it seems to be true. If we are looking for a melody in rap music, we will never be able to appreciate it, simply because rap is not about melody. The same is with Opera, if you want to understand what is going on in a scene without extra efforts, and will listen to the rhythm only, you will never understand why some people love this genre.
When discussing melody vs rhythm, it is a fair argument at a first glance but in actuality I don’t think that it is a good judge of both demographics. The reason is because in rap, the rhythm is accentuated but melody is still present. There are rappers like Notorious BIG who rap on the rhythm but who accompaniment highlights a smooth melodic line that those who do not enjoy rap can listen to and enjoy. There are times where he would have someone singing on the chorus of the song. Therefore, rap does not only showcases rhythm.
Opera in the same light does not only showcase melody. There are many opera pieces that have strong elements of rhythm. In a recitative, the focus is in alignment with the speaking rhythm and not the melody. Even though the speaking rhythm is not one that one can analyze according to pattern or meter, the melodic line is something that is deemed secondary to rhythmic speaking.
“East is East, and West is West… and ne’er the twain shall meet,” an old saying from a writer whose name escapes me, goes. But does it to apply to opera and rap, rap and opera? Can rap fans appreciate opera, and opera fans rap? First I asked the milkman and the newspaper delivery boy. They hated both. They’ll take Lady Gaga and Adele and oldies like Sting and Whitney. Then I asked my brother who in turn phoned his friends in Manila: yes, they’re opera lovers and no, they’re not into rap. Eminem, maybe, but not hard core rappers like Kanye West… in fact there were now Filipino rappers!
The point is that opera probably opens the mind, liberates it, and makes it more accepting of any kind of music. Rap seems to me to be more street-smart than theatre-smart.
Watch first the Jamie Foxx video: as he performs, images of sex-for-hire women flash on screen. Now observe the modern-day staging of Mozart’s “Don Giovanni.” And what’s Leporello telling Donna Elvira? The same offensive-to-women things Foxx catalogues!
Even with women’s lib in place, have times changed? Truly, music mirrors the times.
Never have I ever even thought about comparing these two different genres of music, but after reading this article, I see some similarities. Lyrics, to me, is the most important element of a song (to be specific, rap song). To be honest, I am pretty sure anyone can write a rhyme on a piece of paper if they want to, but it is really about how you rhyme, how you flow and with what style you are rhyming that separates a great rapper from every rappers. After reading this article, I realized I have never thought about opera being lyrical. It is because opera is usually in a different language that I cannot understand, and the fact that they are always singing in a high pitch distracts to me from concentrating on the music itself. Sometimes I cringe from hearing someone scream in a high pitch for so long.
It is unfortunate what rap has become in the mainstream world and I hate a lot of rap songs myself. I don’t blame the people who criticize, but the fact is, there are hundreds of artists who are real artists that make real music. We just don’t hear about them on the news everyday just like I don’t hear about opera singers. Mainstream music is always moving and changing its shape because of the money and a lot of rappers are after that money. That’s why we hear low quality (some even say it is not even considered “music”) music on the radio and that gets labeled as “rap.”
I definitely agree on the point that internet has turned us into “lazy listeners.” Sometimes, I would download albums from my favorite artists, but I don’t have enough time to listen to all of them so they sit in my music library until I come around it again. However, I don’t think that makes me a “lazy listener” because whenever I get a chance, I really listen to the music. It is the internet that allowed us to own all this music.
Opera and rap are two totally different music genres , which belongs to two different eras, various countries and human races. They are like two different cuisines. The only similarity from the above two songs is that they both tried to express the contempapory human behaviour between males and females. Personally I don’t like rap, because I think the rhythms of all rap songs are almost the same. There are no big difference.
In Huizenga’s article, it mentioned the “symbolic boundaries”. I think it is the reason why people like to compare opera and rap, as people use their musical tastes to distinguish themselves from others. Comparsion makes people in different groups want to know more of each others so as to figure out their own superiority; to prove their musical tastes are better.
I think there is not much correlation between the easy access of music and the comprehension of music. I think it depends on the quality of the music piece. Technology has changed the effectiveness of many business, including music. Easy downloading provides audiences just a convenience. If a piece of music is in good qualilty, audience will really listen it and comprehend it.
The comparison of opera and rap is one that I have never thought to make. Huizenga likes to shake things up and does a very good job of it with this article. There is a lot of truth in the comment he makes about opera being for rich, white, elderly snobby people while, rap is made by young, poor, black thugs. Along with those differences are the differences in instrumentation and presentation. Opera is typically more of a melodic based genre, comprised of a symphony and vocalists. Although recorded for personal listening, opera is mainly presented on stage to an audience. Modern rap, on the other hand, is typically rhythm based and consists of a beat made by a producer via an electronic audio interface. Although performed at venues across the world, rap’s main source of presentation doesn’t have to be a stage. It could be through videos or mp3′s in peoples’ pockets.
However, there are more similarities between the two genres than I would have imagined. For starters, the focus in both genres is not the instrumentation, it is the vocalist. The lyrics are at the forefront of each song. Secondly, the lyrics range from everyday conversations, to nonsense “chit-chat” amongst friends, to deeply emotional poetry. Even though they go about it differently, both genres have a story to tell and attempt to compel the listers in their own fashion.
As far as the easy access to music is concerned, I believe it is a very valid point. When people have a wide selection to chose from, it is, A) more difficult to make a selection; B) easy to become over-saturated, which leads to C) a lack of appreciation for a well thought-out piece of music. With such a large variety of readily accessible songs, it makes it easy for people to be lazy listeners and plow through their daily routine while nodding to extremely simple minded music. Listening to and understanding an intricate piece of music takes time and conscious thought which seems to be a foreign concept to the current generation that is all too accustom to instant gratification.
With all of this music now at our fingertips, it is easy for people to get stuck in their ways. I think Huizenga’s purpose of writing this article was to show people that as far apart as two genres may seem, they might have more similarities than one would think. He wants to help people to expand their knowledge and open their minds and ears to new musical possibilities.
I’m no big city shrink but….
My personal belief is that it takes work to fully enjoy any genre in its entirety. Not that one would have to like every work that exists within it but like musical periods genres are just guides to help us define qualities and circumstances around a singular or group of works and like musical periods they too often reach points where the line between them gets blued and even mashed up (Hobotronica?!?!?). What likely determines our willingness to explore more of a particular genre (or not) is the circumstances of our first exposure to that particular genre.
I believe that with any genre, or even any band, for that matter all it takes is one song to create an instant spark of interest or loathing of dissatisfaction. That’s the reason why pop music stations rarely play more than one or two songs from a pop artists album, and its the same reason why when you go out and ‘buy’ that album, that you will probably hear a couple songs that escape that form and feel of that song you heard on a Top 40 station. But you like it, because you were open to it, becasue you previously said to yourself… “Hey…. I like these guys, lets see what else they have to offer.” No, I’m not saying you can’t listen to music objectively once you like a band, but I am claiming that once you do your predisposed to liking them more than you are to reject their work.
Now back to the topic at hand, Rap and Opera. For our purposes they live at near opposite ends of the spectrum of culture. The majority of those who are exposed to them are most likely exposed at first by circumstance, (i.e. you were a kid trapped in your parents car or apartment and were just forced to wait it out) and thus not exposed to the other, hence the extreme amount of polarization.
Now like I said, I’m not big city shrink so I’d like to hear what you all have to say about this!
At first glance at some of the comments that were made about this post, I couldnt help but laugh! I may not have been raised listening to opera but I do understand that it was revolutionary during its time of inception and has paved the way for many other musical genres EVEN RAP (yes, there are hip hop songs that sample opera tracks). However, to say that there is no type of skill or expertise used in order to create Rap music is simply offending, just as it would be wrong to say that there is no skill used in creating Operas. I do not think that there takes a level of prior knowledge to appreciate Rap or Opera music. I’ll break it down nice and simple; If YOU like the sounds…then YOU can appreciate it! There is NO need for training or understanding of the story behind the genre however, it does not hurt in any way to take the time out to learn more about the history behind the genres.
Though it has taken me a while to comment on this, I’ve been excited to do so since I heard about the NPR blog post. Though my musical taste has widened since my tween years when I first started listening to rap, I must admit that I’m still not fond of opera. I have tried to listen with open ears and an open mind but it’s just one genre to which I have yet to enjoy listening. That’s not to say that I don’t appreciate the genre and the dedication and technical skills that it requires, but there simply isn’t any opera on my iPod. Going along with the question of hearing music but not comprehending it, I find that the techniques one must acquire to be considered at least competent in rap are very similar to that of opera – breath control and lung capacity, acting, diction and the speed at which you rap or sing, just to name a few. With this in mind, I feel that people should be less inclined to claim that either genre is “not music.” Whether or not they want to listen to it is another question but as we’ve touched on a few times during classroom discussions, who’s to say what music is or isn’t. Who really has the right to categorize it saying, “yes, this is music” or “no, this doesn’t fit the qualifications?” I know that one of the aspects of opera that contributes to my non-fondness is the type of singing. I was told once by another music professor of mine that R&B and pop singers have “breathy” voices, and apparently that’s what my ears like. It doesn’t mean that I think singers who have non-”breathy” vocals are unaccomplished or non-musical, it’s just different.
In terms of whether or not it’s fair to compare the two genres, I don’t find it unfair. I don’t think anyone is harmed by comparing the two, rather, as you can see from the sheer number of comments on this post and the NPR blog post itself, it spurs more discussion which I think is a great thing. From my informal poll of comments, the question did not seem to unite people on the surface but personally, I always like the challenge of trying to relate topics that seem distant. The other aspect that is blatantly similar in these two genres is storytelling, with added drama, no doubt. In fact I’m sure it would be easy to find an opera on the same topic of Kanye’s “Gold Digger” or a slew of other rap songs that mirror other stories presented in opera.
Lastly, going along with the storytelling aspect of the genres, that is one part of opera that I do enjoy learning about. The behind-the-scenes story of it – the events that led up to the librettist and composer producing the opera – make me appreciate the opera even if I don’t love the listening part.
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Maybe it’s the message and the energy that it requires: that ragging power used by the singer that makes some liseners feel uncomfortable.
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