Anthony Tommasini, a classical music critic at The New York Times, wrote a piece entitled, “The Greatest.” Tommasini provides his top 10 list of THE GREATEST classical composers of all time. What a daunting task… He has chosen from hundreds of composers over hundreds of years.
Here’s his list:
- Bach
- Beethoven
- Mozart
- Schubert
- Debussy
- Stravinsky
- Brahms
- Verdi
- Wagner
- Bartok
How handy. Tommasini has done my job for me… He even provided the list in chronological order. Well, almost. He’s given me an article to start blogging.
Read his article and watch a video or two.
To help you get started on your comment, think about a couple of things…
- Why are these lists so appealing?
- What are the positive effects of these lists? the negative effects?
- What do you think of Tommasini’s reasoning for making the list?
- Who would make your list? Why?
Tommasini’s list is a good list. Nevertheless, I would not rejected Haydn. His pieces like “The Heavens are Telling” and others encompass some of the same elements as his top four. He said that he could not squeeze him in even though he tried; I would have found space for him.
Even Tommasini said that “…Haydn’s great legacy was carried out by his friend Mozart, his student Beethoven and the entire Classical movement.” You can hear Hayden in their polyphonic works -especially how one voice complements another. It’s easier to hear than to explain.
For anyone whose perception of music, in general, is at least slightly deeper from that of the mainstream, it is rather difficult to not find this list appealing. The list contains names of composers whose works are considered masterpieces, for the most part. And even though taste in music is subjective, and I’m pretty sure I can find some works from any one of them (except Bach, perhaps) that I simply don’t like, or ones that are just irritating to my ear, I’m pretty sure even the most I-hate-classical-music person will stumble upon a piece from most of these composers that he/she would appreciate. And yet, the significance of this list does not necessarily lie in liking or not-liking the music of these composers. But first, some feedback on negative and positive aspects of the list. One can argue against it by stating that the list doesn’t include other prominent composers, whose music is much “better” and pleasing to ears (Chopin for example compared to Bartok or Stravinsky), and that the list should be expended to include these great composers. In defense to Tommasini, however, it must be argued that by limiting the list to ten, he was forced to look and analyze on a much deeper level than just an appeal. To be more specific, and this brings us back to the significance of the list, Tommasini is presenting these composers way outside of their own context and all the way to the present day (Lady Gaga, if you wish). The greatness and main reason these composers made the list lies in the fact that they are the milestones in the evolution of Western Music in the Classical era. It is their music that opened new doors and influenced other composers, even though the inspiration is evident among themselves as well. These are not just great composers but also innovators. I would not change the list.
I disagree completely with having a “greatest ever” list in the first place. Perhaps having “most influential” or “most famous” list and expanding it would be better. To say these 10 are THE BEST EVER is very hard to do because I would think there is some level of subjectivity to it. In another class of mine, we discuss the difference between liking music for its “mental” feelings or “gut” feelings it gives us. How do we know if Tommasini is speaking from a purely intellectual point or what each composer does to his gut? We don’t know. For me personally, Beethoven is number 1 and no chance in hell am I leaving out Mahler. Mahler was even mentioned by Tommasini that he’s amazing. I believe this because of what Beethoven and Mahler do with rhythm. Rhythm is what gets my “gut” excited and why is listen to certain genres of music like rap/hip hop. The kvalentine student wouldn’t leave out Hayden. Clearly Hayden does something for this person that one of the chose 10 doesn’t. Point being, I think if you ask 10 people to chronologically place the 10 best composers of all time on a list, you would have 10 lists. Tommasini is also ranking people based on certain skills and “range.” He explains this in deciding #2 and #3. “Mozart had a whole second career as a path-breaking opera composer. Such incredible range should give him the edge.” I get that Beethoven didn’t write operas but what about the fact that he was DEAF?!?! The other 9 guys could hear, a basic necessity for music, and Beethoven did what he did with no hearing! I think if Van Gogh or Michelangelo was blind, they’d get #1 in their field automatically. I am glad to see Stravinsky as high as he is. I personally love “The Rite of Spring.” Overall I think it’s impossible to make a list that everyone will agree on 100%. Every composer mentioned in his article has done great things for music.
Like many of you, I also disagree that there should even be “Greatest Ever” list. Indeed all of the composers mentioned have cemented their place in musical history. Although, I think that Tommasini does a good job at prefacing the article when he briefly says that this was more of an intellectual game for himself, as this list represents. The fact is that they are all subjective, (even as intellectual as he claims to be) I’m sure if one really wanted to (and many have) traced roots of musical influence that is a fine way of saying who has had the most impact but does that really qualify as saying who is the greatest. For myself, I am partial to minimalism of the mid 20th Century but is Phillip Glass better than Beethoven? No… Is Beethoven better than Mr. Glass… I think not. Musical ideas transcendence time. That’s why we learn music history. Like a tree, with out roots you’ll never grow. If it wasn’t for Haydn, Beethoven would not sound as he sounds today just as Lady GaGa wouldn’t be the same if it wasn’t for Madonna. To say which one is greater is a matter of personal subjectivity.
Of course I understand that Anthony Tommasini is a professional, and has been in the world of music for long long time. However, it seems to me that in order to select top 10 classical music composers of all time, you need more time than just 2 weeks. The first 3 places are not surprise for me. I think if you ask a person, who does not like classical music, and basically know nothing about it, to name at least 3 classical composers he can remember, then Bach, Beethoven and Mozart will be called in 99 cases out of 100 (the order can be different.) Haydn, probably, will share a place with those 3. I think that he deserves to be in the list. He is known for his contributions to the Symphony and the String Quartet. Tommasini does a great job trying to explain why he chose one composer and not the other. However, it still seems to be the matter of personal taste, at least partially. And it is expected, because it is very difficult to be objective to something that has connection to art. By choosing only 10 composers, Tommasini puts himself in a constant debate, if he made a right choice or not. Nevertheless, I am sure that every single one of us can find at least one composer in the list, who, in our personal, subjective opinion, has a true right to be called “the greatest.”
To objectively judge Tommasini’s list, it’s important not to bring in any personal musical preference. Although my favorite composers are Bach and Chopin, I wouldn’t say Chopin is the greatest as he only composes piano music. However, as a female pianist, I love his music. I feel it’s very hard to make such a list as the criteria we use to define “greatness” changes all the time. Bach’s music accomplishment was not recognized 100 years after he died. With time, people’s value and preference will change as well. It’s difficult to make such a list also because one needs to be very knowledgeable to know almost every piece of music and specialty of not only the chosen composers but also those who are not chosen. This is why I don’t want to judge the content of this list so much. My top 5 composers are the same as Tommasini’s list, but I have do admit that I don’t have enough knowledge yet to judge 19th century composers such as Verdi and Wagner. But I feel it’s good to have such a list for education purposes.
I think that these types of rankings are extremely subjective and to be honest – unnecessary. I would argue that no one would completely agree with this top 10 list. Every individual perceives music different. Some people might prefer music of the classical period, others might be fascinated by music of the 20th century. And how can one even think of ranking geniuses? Can someone really claim that Schubert was “greater” than Verdi or Wagner? Is it possible to have Debussy coming in 5th place but to leave out Tchaikovsky or Chopin completely? It would be similar if someone would have attempted to compare Rembrandt, Monet and Picasso; or Goethe, Shakespeare and Tolstoy. It seems like an impossible task to me. Instead of the top 10 list Mr. Tommasini should have created lists of the greatest composers of different periods. Or better, not to have any top something lists at all and to simply focus on discussing achievements and greatness of different composers. I am confident that the readers would figure out their top 10 lists themselves.
I find this list appealing because although I am someone who’s always enjoyed playing and listening to classical music, I know that a big part of my generation has a limited knowledge of this genre of music. The list is a great reference for people who are looking for an education in classical music and need a starting point. I absolutely agree with Bach holding the number one spot – as a pianist for 16 years some of my favorite and most challenging pieces have come from his repertoire, particularly his inventions. The intricacies in his music, specifically the polyphony and counterpoint, are hard to find from other composers. I agree with the comments that Haydn should have been on this list, to leave him out is almost criminal. Personally, I’m kind of upset that Franz Lizst didn’t make it. He’s considered one of the most advanced pianists of his age, which in my opinion is a huge accomplishment.
I also agree that “The Best” is pushing it. Most influential, most notable, or maybe “The Top 10 Classical Composers Everyone Should Know About” would have been a more appropriate title. Opinions on “the best” composers will always be incredibly subjective depending on the individual and their musical experience & tastes.
Anthony Thommasi does a good job by listing the top 10 composers for us. The best thing Thommasis does is that he explain why he thinks these composers deserve the ranks they have been placed at. I agree with this list but this list is not to be agreed with every one who comes across it. Most people have different taste about who thinks is their greatest. It depends on how much knowledge one has about these classical composers. For instance, it would be vague to say that many people might know about Beethoven just because one is familiar wih the Fifth Symphony. So, this list is more like a lay out for people to know why the composers should or should not deserve to hit the top ten. Readers should not take this list personally. If one thinks a composer should deserve to be No. 1 than they should start a new blog and enlight the minds of different critics who might have a different view about it.
My knowledge of classical music is limited but i would have like to see Chopin included in the list. Chopin is a composer who suits my personal tastes and i am drawn to. Also he is one of the first composers I was exposed to. The article was extremely stimulating and made me think about different composers and what made them great. It was also thought provoking in that I could not think of ten top composers list easily. All the composers i could think of were different and unique in their style and it was difficult to exclude someone from the list. It was my weekend food for thought because I had to reference previous textbooks and my personal playlist.
This “Greatest” composers list by Anthony Tommasini provides me a good reference for entering the world of classical music. I think this sort of lists is always appealing for readers because in reality it does exist of different opinions and personal preference. People like to get acknowledged of their own tastes. Anthony was subjective when picking the “Greatest” composers and defining the word “Greatness”. From the article, Anthony mentioned that when ranking between Verdi and Wagner, “Verdi was a decent man while Wagner was an egomaniacal jerk so he ranked Verdi higher than Wagner”, we know that this was the writer’s personal perception. We therefore do not need to be too serious of arguing if the ranking is right or wrong. Readers should not narrow their scope of classical music after reading these kinds of ranking lists.
In fact, every audience does have his own list of the “Greatest” composers and this list could be changing during the life. Personally, my list includes Brahms, Tchaikovsky and Chopin. It is because Brahms’s Piano Concerto No. 1 is the most romantic piece I have ever heard. I admit that my list will keep changing during my life time when I listen more musical pieces and have deeper knowledges about classical music.
I believe that Tommasini’s “Greatest” Composers list is very subjective and even though everyone will not agree with his list, he makes very good and educated points about these ten composers. I am not familiar with all of these composers but from previous musical experience from my other music classes I believe Haydn should be on this list. Haydn was the founder of the string quartet and wrote many great symphonies. He mastered the string quartet and they all sound beautiful. Bach’s music does not appeal to me. I agree with Tommasini that he was an intelligent man to say the least. I don’t believe that Bach should take the number one spot. Another composer that should be on the list is Liszt. He was a phenomenal piano player, made one of the first transcriptions, and on top of that he was a great composer. I don’t agree with the way he writes in this article, it seems like he is pushing this list on you. Like I said before not everyone is going to have the same opinion on this list but people can agree that he does a good job validating his points on why that composer was on the list. There are many other great composers that he missed which disappointed me.
Tommasini may be regarded as someone who may know much more about classical music than the average person but I believe that no matter how many years and credentials one may have to allow them to criticize music, there is no right or wrong way to judge artists. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with Tommasini’s choices for the best classical composers but I will say that my list would have been very different from his. It is all about musical taste, what may sound great to Tommasini may not sound exceptional to me. With that being said, my top two composers would be Beethoven followed by Wagner.
I believe lists that rank particular composers, authors, artists, etc. are interesting to people because it makes you open up your mind and think about how you would rank something. Tommasini has a list filled with composers who have been innovators for the centuries that followed them and opened the door to the music we know and love today. Although Tommasini is a respected critic, there is still no way a list can be made without that person’s own personal feelings popping up somewhere. Music is something that moves us, and yes you can strictly look at technical aspects, but a list with “The Greatest of All-time” would need more then just technical check marks for a composer to be under Bach. I was suprised that he did not include Haydn because he is such a respected composer. I am not a classical music expert, but in general with any music I think it would be hard to narrow down the greatest composers because there were so many, with so many different styles. The list does make you want to go an listen to composers you aren’t to familiar with and see what Tommasini hears as the Greatest.
I don’t really care for lists that are not based on measurable qualities. It is useless to compare and rank composers of different eras and different genres especially because there are so many social and historic variables involved. Since it is Tommasini’s personal list, there is going to be some type of bias so there is no point in considering the list.
Also, Tommasini should have just expanded the list to fit in the composers that he had left off. It is also relatively easier to rank the top ten than it is to rank the next forty.
Although I agree with Tommasini’s list, I believe this lists is very subjective. This list is his opinion, and his opinion alone. In writing a list of the “greatest” composers to be taken seriously, I would rather there be a larger discussion with more then one persons input. I would really much rather see a debate. But, as he states, this is his personal list. This is a good article because it gets the mind thinking and allows everyone to engage. In my personal list I would add Liszt somewhere in the mix. I’m a sucker for the rock star life style.
Being a recent enamored aficionado of classical music, I still have to do the extra mile of concerts and operas to get fully acquainted with all the great classical music composers. Living in New York, has helped shorten my experiential curve of taking in concerts and operas, much less reading critical reviews.
Although, I have deep respect for critics, I feel that some are too pontificating in their points of view. For me, music is emotionally engaging, therefore deeply personal. Even if critical acclaim would attest to Bach as the greatest composer of all time, I beg to disagree on the basis of my emotional reaction to his music.
Comparing my choices with Tomassini’s list, my top five would be Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, Tchaikovsky and Bach. My next 5 would include Verdi, as I am so moved by opera. I cannot imagine a list without opera composers. The structure of opera, the emotional tug. Which is why I included Wagner in my first 5. Tristan and Isolde, is a monumental work on the depths of tragedy and sadness. I would include Madame Butterfly, as moving operas.
I need to underscore Tchaikovsky for the grandness of his work. The regal strains are so stirring. To complete my list, I include Mahler, Brahms, Rachmaninoff and Stravinsky. In addition, Stravinsky for his balletic pieces, so stirring and full of flourish.
I feel lists are good as a guide, but shouldn’t be taken as dogma. It is also good to keep revising a list, as familiarity with other composers is built. My love for classical music flourishes, thanks to access to music recordings and performances here in New York.
I think we can all agree that coming up with a top-10 list of artists in any genre of music is not an easy task. This kind of list always creates a controversy because everyone has different tastes and opinions. Who is to say someone is definitely “better” than others? And based on what? I believe that art is a free expression and therefore it is not possible to judge artists with a some kind of system. It should be based on how one perceives that art. That is why there are millions of unknown artists. However, I also think it is okay to come up with a list like this because it creates a foundation for someone who is not so knowledgable in this field (such as myself). Of course I’ve heard of big names like Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Schubert and Wagner, but there are still names that I have never heard of which led me to research these “one of the greatest artists.” That is perhaps more important than the list itself. Tommasini does mentions that this is “my list” at the end. It is his opinion of top 10 list and it led me to listen to other artists. I think he did his job right
Tommasini’s lists amazing composers however, there should not be any list at all. Creating a list of the ten greatest, tends to leave out viable composers such as Chopin, Monteverdi and Brahms. Lists are tricky especially with music because music is interpreted in many different ways. To create a list leaves little room for objectivity. Everyone has their own opinion as Tommasini had mentioned in his article people had their own opinions of who the great composers were. Music constantly changes and have done so for centuries. Even Bach was not famous after his death until composer incorporated his musical style into theirs around the late 18 century. If it were not for them, his name would not have been even on this list. That is more evidence that there should not be a list because even years from now there could be a musical change that might even cause the list to be altered.
Top ten lists like “the greatest ______” are usually subjective. If Tommasini says that these composers are the “greatest,” then most of it is just opinion-based, and some of it may be based on the composers’ technical skills/creativity/success/virtuoso playing. These lists are not facts that will be the same no matter who you ask; it’s based on one’s opinion. It’s good that Tommasini explains why he chose or did not choose a specific composer for the list though. However, I’m surprised that Chopin and Haydn are not on the list.
I don’t know enough of these ten composers’ music to place them on such a list, so I’m not sure who I would put on my list; I would have to research first and listen to a lot of their music to figure it out. Even then it would be hard to place them in order. I feel that ranking things (anything) as 1-10 is hard, and sometimes I just want to put some entries as a shared spot. Sometimes two things compared cannot be judged as one “better” than the other, but perhaps rather just different and both great in different ways.
On the other hand, these types of lists can be a good way to discover new music, or to help people focus on certain composers more than others. Some people want to hear the “best of the best” and will research information such as reviews and other people’s comments to get there. Similar to reviews on products and restaurants, it is appealing to hear that ______ (a composer) is one of the best composers around. However, this list is from Tommasini’s point of view, and it is subjective. Even though Tommasini asked for others’ opinions on the list, the final decision was his.
The positive effects could be that it draws attention and introduces people to certain composers, and/or celebrates the “better” composers. Maybe one of Tommasini’s reasons to make a list like this is to celebrate the top composers and let other people know who is the “greatest” for a variety of reasons. Maybe he wants to influence others to listen to the classical music he believes is the best. There may be some negative effects to these kinds of lists too, such as upset people who feel that these subjective lists are not correct. Because this list is opinion-based, there are going to be a lot of people who disagree with Tommasini.
Although I do think that “top 10″ or “greatest ever” lists like this are very subjective and can vary depending on one’s personal taste, I believe Tommasini’s list is a good place for someone to look into if they decide they want to start listening to the genre of classical music. Trying to find something to listen to can be overwhelming if you are unfamiliar with a particular genre, and having a list like this (with the reasoning and examples in the article) to assist you and to be more of a guideline would seem to be helpful.
Lists like these are always debatable. There are far too many incredible classical composers for the list to be this short, or to even exist at all. Tommasini is certainly well aware of this fact and it is for this reason that I believe his purpose for creating this list was not only to inform people of his top 10 choices, but to also stir up conversation about a slowly dying genre. With all the new music out there and its instant availability, the art of classical music has taken a back seat. Dedicating an entire NY Times article to this one topic can help raise awareness and stimulate conversations amongst scholars and listeners (old or new) alike. There have been over 800 comments left of the article already, so I would argue that it is working. Nevertheless, as far as the list goes, I agree with all of his choices. I think they are a good collection of composers because they cover almost the entire spectrum of the classical genre. The dates of the composers range from the 18th to the 20th centuries and they cover a wide range of politics, emotions, and styles throughout the years. However, I disagree with his disposal of Haydn. He was a master of his craft and very unique in his own right. I would have placed him in the top 3.
One possible reason for creating a list like this this one might be to provide a person who is not familiar with classical music a small foundation of various composers throughout time. Lists like this can also cause positive as well as negative personal opinions about who various people believe are the top ten greatest composers of all time. Tommasini explains his initial reasoning for creating this list when he stated that, “I began this project with bravado, partly as an intellectual game but also as a real attempt to clarify — for myself, as much as for anyone else — what exactly about the master composers makes them so astonishing.” Tommasini also stated that he completed this list after a two-week period of time. Although I have never attempted to make a list similar to this one, I can only imagine that it would require an analysis longer than two weeks.
I also would not have left Haydn in the dust. I think his output alone sets him apart and because of his role in introducing the public to the string quartet. I think one of the reasons as to why the idea of a list is so appealing is because it’s an accessible starting point for discussion. It requires the one making the list to concretely decide who or what is important to them. If Tommasini had written a similar article but not stressed the fact that this was his “Top 10 List” of composers of all time, it might not have received such passionate and curious feedback from so many readers.
Perhaps it is more tolerable to name “wonderfuls” than “greats”. Tommasini’s list causes dispute amongst classical enthusiasts who are rooting for their composer. Possibly, this is what makes his list appealing. Tommasini even admits that he may have not only upset some fans of composers such as Mahler or Berg but also may have cut them from the list unjustly. In the entire first half of his article, “The Greatest” he admits that making a list of this sort is plain stupid, something I can agree upon. Of course this list is subjective and no matter how much thought (2 weeks…) Tommasini has put into comprising this list, it is one that is impulsive. But he did it, and this is a well respected music critic and one can agree or disagree with the list and/or his approach. I would not make a top 10 list personally. Who am I? I would make a more general list and more than 10. There are too many composers to choose from to make a top 10.
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